JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

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JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby liaoya » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:20 am

Hi, I find JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven repository is 1.0.14 and 1.0.11 respectively. I like Maven and JFreeChart too. I hope to find the latest version on Maven repository.
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby david.gilbert » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:02 am

I don't use Maven and don't know how it works, so I leave it up to volunteers to handle uploads to the Maven repository. Perhaps you'll volunteer?
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 01, 2009 4:43 pm

Hi David,

I have the same problem as Liaoya.
Please check out this documentation page of Maven:

http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/gui ... pload.html

Automatic sync-ing would be preferred, according to paragraph:
"Sync'ing your own repository to the central repository automatically"

I would like to volunteer, but for one step, your help is needed, which is:
"If you are using ssh in your own server you need to add the maven public key to the authorized ones to allow us to log in to the machine."
Only you can add public keys to sourceforge ssh server for this project.

Thanks in advance,
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby david.gilbert » Sat May 02, 2009 4:56 am

I read that documentation, multiple times, but I don't understand it. It seems a pretty complex deal to get a couple of jars included in a central repository. I'm already very short on time, so I don't want to add another burden. I will leave Maven uploads to third party volunteers, just as I do with JFreeChart packaging for Linux distributions (Debian, RedHat, Ubuntu etc).
David Gilbert
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Thu May 21, 2009 11:10 pm

Dear David,

I have recently converted my Ant based project to Maven, I am happy with this change.
My project is here: http://jtstand.codehaus.org/
You are busy, but this is exactly why you should consider this improvement.
Long time it will save you time.
Let me know if you are interested I would help you.

Al
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby david.gilbert » Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 am

Ant works really well for JFreeChart. I don't see any compelling reason to drop Ant.

For the Maven Repository, if there are barriers to projects getting uploaded if they *don't* use Maven as their build system (and there do seem to be barriers), then yes the Maven Repository is going to be out of date - for a lot of projects, not just JFreeChart.
David Gilbert
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 22, 2009 5:23 pm

David,

The benefits of being there is little for you (because you already have a building system), but plenty for your users. If you develop FOR your users, you should try to make your project released to a Maven Repository. Agree? If you question this, I will be glad to discuss the benefits next time.

I agree with you 100% about the fact that projects have barriers in regards of getting uploaded to Maven Repositories.

The easy solution for this problem is converting your project to a Maven project. You will probably find more than one volunteers who would like to help you in this. Me too.

If you are not using Maven as building tool, it would require manual labor from you and from the maintainer of the repository (who could be yourself too). You may be able to invent some automation to help on the manual labor, by developing your building tool to handle releases to Maven Repository, but this would be a serious reinvention of the wheel.

Al
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby RichardWest » Fri May 22, 2009 5:58 pm

Al,
I do not believe David objects to the general idea of having JFreeChart in the Maven repository, but he does not have the time to do so or invest the time to learn how to do so.

ali65 wrote:The benefits of being there is little for you (because you already have a building system), but plenty for your users. If you develop FOR your users, you should try to make your project released to a Maven Repository. Agree? If you question this, I will be glad to discuss the benefits next time.


David is a developer who is more willing to listen to suggestions and accept patches than most developers. He does indeed develop JFreeChart for his users; me included. I do not use Maven and have no need to, so moving JFreeChart away from Ant could alienate me and others. David needs to consider this before he makes any switch. So far, only two people in this thread have expressed a desire for JFreeChart to be in Maven (and probably a few others throughout the forum). Neither of you have given a great reason why Maven is better than Ant given that David's distribution method is working well for him.

ali65 wrote:The easy solution for this problem is converting your project to a Maven project. You will probably find more than one volunteers who would like to help you in this. Me too.


David has asked everyone who wants JFreeChart to be in the Maven Repository to help him. You are the first person to actually volunteer. May I suggest that you invest some leg work by writing the appropriate tools, scripts, etc. and posting them in a patch for David to review, test, and consider.

ali65 wrote:If you are not using Maven as building tool, it would require manual labor from you and from the maintainer of the repository (who could be yourself too). You may be able to invent some automation to help on the manual labor, by developing your building tool to handle releases to Maven Repository, but this would be a serious reinvention of the wheel.


Of course, supporting non-Maven users then becomes harder work.

-----

david.gilbert wrote:Ant works really well for JFreeChart. I don't see any compelling reason to drop Ant.

For the Maven Repository, if there are barriers to projects getting uploaded if they *don't* use Maven as their build system (and there do seem to be barriers), then yes the Maven Repository is going to be out of date - for a lot of projects, not just JFreeChart.


David,
Most of my quick research turns up a religious war between Maven users and Ant users, so this debate could become a slippery slope fast. The more neutral pages I have looked at seem to state that developers should stick with whatever they feel most comfortable with since Maven and Ant have different, but similar, purposes and both have pros and cons. There are a couple sites that talk about how you can embed Ant-like tasks in Maven, but I have not read those in detail.
Richard West
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Advanced Micro Devices
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 22, 2009 6:58 pm

Dear Richard West,

Richard, Please explain it to me why do you think, switching JFreeChart from Ant to Maven would alienate you or others!
I am afraid you are just being religious.

---

As a JFreeChart user and Ant user, you don't need to be afraid of JFreeChart switching from Ant to Maven.
This change would not affect your work at all:

You can still download the JFreeChart jars the same way as you did,
you can still put the new jar file into your project's lib directory,
and you can still change your project.properties file (files.references and javac.classpath).

While Maven users only change one line, for example:
Code: Select all
<version>1.0.16</version>

to
Code: Select all
<version>1.0.17</version>

(and the rest, including the download, dependency checking, etc is handled by Maven).

---

Did this give you a hint how Maven is better for you user?
And for the JFreeChart developer: at the first glance no difference: you just click a button to build or release, just like you did with Ant.
But there are more, please study it.

---

Dear David,
I am asking you to approve and support me creating a fork of the jFreeChart which I will use to refactor jFreeChart for Maven.
This project will help you decide, you want to switch or not.

This change (conversion to Maven) is not the class of just creating a patch, but maybe I am wrong.

Al
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 22, 2009 7:09 pm

David,
In fact, I have requested a new project for this fork from Codehaus, my preferred project hosting site.
Please support.
Albert
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby RichardWest » Fri May 22, 2009 7:27 pm

ali65 wrote:Richard, Please explain it to me why do you think, switching JFreeChart from Ant to Maven would alienate you or others!
I am afraid you are just being religious.


I actually take offense to that last comment. The first I realized that there exists a religous war between Maven users and Ant users was when I was trying to research Maven and the differences with Ant. I agree with the neutral arguments that Maven and Ant both have pros and cons, and Maven does not (at least initially) have enough benefits to warrent investing the time to switch from an already established build methodology. David's objection is also based on a time argument, so I would not believe he is being religious either.

As for alienating users: that will always happen when you change a project espcially if people have strong opinions against the change. You make an argument that changing to Maven will not impact Ant users too much, and you are willing to demonstrate that. Your demonstration needs to be more than just changing a version number though and/or better explained, but people like David are willing to listen to a well presented argument and keep an open mind.

In the end though, it is David's decision how he wishes to handle JFreeChart development.
Richard West
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:56 pm

Dear Richard,

There are some good books about Maven:
http://maven.apache.org/articles.html
They can probably give you a better demonstration than what I could give you.

You have formed strong opinions about something what you just tried to research, but not really researched it.

I did not know what to think about Maven, just like you.
I tried it and it won me over.

Who is religious?
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby RichardWest » Fri May 22, 2009 9:28 pm

It is not a religious issue; it is more of a 'you cannot teach an old dog new tricks' issue.

ali65 wrote:You have formed strong opinions about something what you just tried to research, but not really researched it.


I do not have a strong opinion over whether Maven is better than Ant as I am not a heavy Java developer (C/C++ is my primary language). It is clear that you are missing the purpose of my message. My (and David's) argument is not that Ant is better than Maven; our argument is that Ant works for JFreeChart and learning about Maven etc. takes time which is not available at the moment.

Thank you for providing the link to the Maven articles. I will read some when I have the time. If nothing else, I may consider trying Maven if and when I deploy my own Java based project.

Again, thank you for volunteering to do the leg work for David. Doing the work needed to convert JFreeChart over to Maven and presenting it to David is probably the best argument you can make. The issue with examples and tutorials is that it can be hard to mentally adapt them to your prior work. Show us how it is done and how easy it is, and you can easily convince us.

I am forming some strong opinions (perhaps unfairly), but they are not about Maven or Ant. This thread is starting to get off topic, so we should probably stop and wait for David's input. Again; JFreeChart is his project and he ultimately makes decisions regarding how it is run. Whatever he decides, you may or may not agree with him.
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby ali65 » Fri May 22, 2009 9:41 pm

Richard,

Because of your last message, I'll take back all my notes about your religious and prejudice-ness.
I only argue with that one: "you cannot teach an old dog".
You can guess my age easy.

Al
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Re: JCommon and JFreeChart on Maven Repository is out of date

Postby david.gilbert » Sat May 23, 2009 7:32 am

Here's the way I see it:

(1) Ant can already produce the *file* that needs to be uploaded to the Maven Repository;

(2) The problem is getting the file from A (a build machine somewhere) to B (the Maven Repository);

(3) A manual procedure exists for (2), but it is slow (4 weeks turnaround!) and lacks regular volunteers on the JFreeChart side to make it happen;

(4) There are N Java projects out there in a similar position, where I'd guess N is a fairly large number;

(5) The proposed solution is that N projects drop their existing build system and adopt Maven so they can create their own repository and then set up SSH so that the Maven repository process can log in and auto-sync with the external repository whenever a new release gets made.

From my point of view, (5) is the proverbial use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut, N times over. When all we really need is for the Maven people to provide a sane file upload process for (2). Why is that so hard for them to do? It's just a file transfer.
David Gilbert
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:idea: Ask your company to buy the JFreeChart Developer Guide
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